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Dragon.ee foorum • Vaata teemat - LoTR... pettus!?!?
Leht 1 koguhulgast 3

LoTR... pettus!?!?

PostitusPostitatud: 15:34 17. Jaan 2004
Postitas harshipper
Minu teema algatuse aluseks on 8. jaanuari Eesti Ekspressis ilmunus artikkel "Sõrmuste vennaskonna müsteerium". Selle artikli autor Andrei Hvostov rõhutas sarnasusi Tolkieni Sõrmuste Isanda ja Wagneri Niebelungide sõrmuse vahel. Kõlama jäi motiiv a'la et LoTR on Wagneri pealt maha kirjutatud.

Välja toodud sarnasused olid näiteks:
Härjapõlvlane Alberich/võlur Sauron sepistab võimu andva sõrmuse.
Wotan vajab hiiglaste abi Valhalla ehitamiseks/haldjad vajavad Saurini abi sõrmuse sepistamiseks.
Hiiglaste/Sauroni abi kasutamine pöördub jumalatele/haldjatele needuseks.
Sõrmus neetakse/on kuri, see reedab kandjad.
Hiiglane Fafner/ protokääbik Smeagol tapab oma venna Fasolti/ sõbra Deagoli eesmärgiga saada sõrmus endale.
Fafner/Smeagol-Golunk redutab ilmatuma aja mäealuses koopas.
Siegfrid/Aragon pärib oma isa murtud mõõga.
Valküür Brunhilde/ haldjatar Arwen loobub surematusest, et kokku jääda oma armastatuga.
Jumalad/ haldjad ütlevad maast lahti ja valmistuvad sealt lahkuma.
Sõrmus heidetakse Reini jõkke/ Mount Doomi lõõri.
Hagen/ Guglunk kukub jõkke/ tulemäe kurku.
Surematud põlevad Valhallas/ lahkuvad Keskmaalt.
Saabub uus, inimeste ajastu.


Ei ole ka võimalik väita, et Tolkien ei olnud Wagneri töödega tuttav, sest see oli selle aja haritlasele peaaegu kohustuslik. Aga samas on Tolkieni vastus nendele süüdiststele olnud: "Mõlemad sõrmused olis ümmargused ja sellega sarnasus ka lõpeb!!"


Niiet ma paluks abi neilt, kes tunnevad LoTRit ja võibolla ka Wagnerit minust paremini teha mulle selgeks, kas on siis sarnasus, mis määral ja miks Tolkien seda eitas. Kuigi ma ei tahaks seda kuidagi uskuda, et see on üks suur plagiaat peab olema põhjus, miks suur osa inimesi nii arvab.

PostitusPostitatud: 23:56 17. Jaan 2004
Postitas Aeg
Noh, sarnasusi kahtlemata on.
Aga arvestades teoste mahtu, ei ole neid siiski piisavalt, et LOTRi plagiaadiks pidada.

Kui kirjanik midagi kirjutab ja loob, siis mõjutavad teda ju kõik tema varem loetud raamatud/kuuldud muistendid. Ja kasvõi alateadlikult põimid üht-teist ka oma loomingusse.

Ei ole midagi uut siin päikese all.

Re: LoTR... pettus!?!?

PostitusPostitatud: 6:28 18. Jaan 2004
Postitas dreampiller

PostitusPostitatud: 13:18 18. Jaan 2004
Postitas ohpuu

PostitusPostitatud: 15:13 18. Jaan 2004
Postitas Posija

PostitusPostitatud: 17:55 18. Jaan 2004
Postitas Irve
Mina nagu mäletan, et Tolkien olevat väitnud, et ta üsna igalt poolt laenanud on :)

PostitusPostitatud: 18:33 18. Jaan 2004
Postitas dreampiller

PostitusPostitatud: 20:04 18. Jaan 2004
Postitas Elendil

PostitusPostitatud: 21:00 18. Jaan 2004
Postitas Fromhold

PostitusPostitatud: 1:26 19. Jaan 2004
Postitas Enedlithiel
Kunagi ammu lugesin kusagilt, et Tolkien kasutas ka midagi Kalevalast!
Ei ole 100% kindel aga midagi kumiseb kusagilt.

PostitusPostitatud: 9:17 19. Jaan 2004
Postitas Irve

PostitusPostitatud: 12:59 19. Jaan 2004
Postitas Sull

PostitusPostitatud: 13:18 19. Jaan 2004
Postitas uuk

PostitusPostitatud: 13:20 19. Jaan 2004
Postitas Tauron

PostitusPostitatud: 13:24 19. Jaan 2004
Postitas Fromhold